Unedited Transcripts

Peelers! with Jedburgh Dagger (Unedited)

Dr. Harvey: I’m glad to see that the place is still functional, Herr Baron
Dee Wells waves to Sera 🙂
Sera: Hello Garnet
Sera: Dee, and everyone else!
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Nothing has fallen off, although the flooring got a bit soft.
Bookworm Hienrichs waves a greeting to the various newcomers.
Dr. Harvey: Hmm, I knew this fault line could pose problems…
Tepic Harlequin snickers
Dee Wells: 😉
Garnet Psaltery: It detached my bridge as i crossed it but recrossing fixed it
Dee Wells waves to Phineas
Phineas Thrace: Hello All
Dee Wells waves to Roy
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Phineas
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: I think we have sufficient reinforcement now.
Dee Wells: Hello Kimika 🙂
Kimika Ying: Hello 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Kimika
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Your Highness! Good to see you.
Selena curtsies “Herr Baron, a pleasure to see you”
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Hallo, Frau Dagger.
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Selena
Bookworm Hienrichs: We will, as usual, wait a few minutes for the stragglers.
Bookworm Hienrichs grins.
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: If anyone needs a chair, simply ask.
Tepic Harlequin: we ain’t gonna get locked in, is we?
Nicholas Herding: I might as well take one since you kindly offer!
Garnet Psaltery: Only if you break the law
Bookworm Hienrichs: Do pardon me, Baron. Silly border crossings…
Tepic Harlequin: ah……. well….. errrrr…..
Dr. Harvey whispers to Tepic, “I still have the skeleton key”
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Of course, Fraulein.
Nicholas Herding: Many Thanks Baron
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Bitte.
Dee Wells waves to Gabrielle 🙂
Gabrielle Anatra waves
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Gabrielle :o0
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach nods a greeting at Fraulein Anatra.
Tepic Harlequin: last time i were in clink it were in the Americas…….
Bookworm Hienrichs: So Tepic–are you going to report on what you learn to the other urchins?
Bookworm Hienrichs grins.
Nika Thought-werk sits quietly unwound in the corner.
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: main core
Nika Thought-werk’s Doll Key: The doll’s eyes blink shut before quickly reopening. It then responds: ‘Main-core access granted. Core reading shall begin from track 1608, bar-line 8, key 27.
Tepic Harlequin: we always talks ter each other, Miss….
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Fraulein Bookworm, if you might do the announcements.
Nika Thought-werk blinks and walks slowly over to the carpet
Bookworm Hienrichs nods.
Bookworm Hienrichs: Welcome to this month’s Aether Salon! Today, Miss Jedburgh Dagger will lead her third Salon, in a look at the Victorian police and judicial systems.
Garnet Psaltery: Nika you look charming
Dee Wells: Yes 🙂
Tepic Harlequin: the rozzers an the beaks!
Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
Bookworm Hienrichs: Before we proceed, some housekeeping reminders:
Jon Chen: 🙂
Bookworm Hienrichs: 1) To ensure you can hear the speaker, stand or sit on the patterned carpet.
Nika Thought-werk smiles “Thank you, Miss Garnet. See my bracelet? That is why … it is a charm bracelet.”
Jon Chen waves at Beryl 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Ah, I see
Nika Thought-werk: You look very nice, too!
Bookworm Hienrichs: 2) If you do not have a wearable chair and wish one, please contact Baron Wulfenbach.
Garnet Psaltery: Hello beryl
Bookworm Hienrichs: 3) Please remove all lag-feeding whatevers you might be wearing.
Jon Chen: wb
Dee Wells: Hello, Jon. Wb Beryl 🙂
Nika Thought-werk looks back at Miss DME and whispers.
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach murmurs something about ammunition
Darlingmonster Ember smiles
Bookworm Hienrichs: (Please do, as I’m freezing enough as is.)
Bookworm Hienrichs: (Freezing up, that is.)
Bookworm Hienrichs: (whacks her computer)
Bookworm Hienrichs: 5) Any tips to help support the establishment will also be welcome – just click on one of the support signs!
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach points up at the hovering clank airship
Bookworm Hienrichs: 4) A tip jar is out for our speaker. Do please show your appreciation!
Bookworm Hienrichs: 6) If you’re not a member of the AEther Salon group, there are signs that will let you sign up. You’ll be most heartily welcome!
Bookworm Hienrichs: 7) Edited and unedited transcripts of these proceedings will be posted at aethersalon.blogspot.com.
Bookworm Hienrichs: And now, to introduce our speaker, here is Baron Klaus Wulfenbach.
Bookworm Hienrichs steps back to continue freezing up in peace.
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: There is very little that I can add to praise our guest that is already known very well around New Babbage and various of the other Steamlands. Frau Dagger was the very first Salon guest, and we greatly appreciate her gracing us with her knowledge for a remarkable third time.
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Frau Jedburgh Dagger, danke.
Jon Chen applauds
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach applauds
Jedburgh Dagger: Just proves I still have a twistable arm.
Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
Nicholas Herding applauds
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Heh.
Dr. Harvey applauds
Selena claps for her friend
Darlingmonster Ember applauds
Sera: applauds
Nika Thought-werk claps happily.
Amandyne Eberhardt claps
Jedburgh Dagger: One thing I would like to request is that you hold your questions until I ask for them. If you blurt out I might miss it and I want to make sure I give you at least a passable answer if I can
Darlingmonster Ember: nods
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Wildstar :o)
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach waves at the Admiral.
Jedburgh Dagger: Also, my ISP has been very twitchy this week (shakes fist at Time Warner) so if I poof…Not my fault.
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: We will wait for you.
Jon Chen: to be sure!
Dee Wells: 😀
Wildstar B.: it is always Miss Jed’s fault grins
Jon Chen: Never!
Jedburgh Dagger: Yeah yeah Beaumont. Kiss kiss, and all that
Jedburgh Dagger: 😀
Wildstar B.: LOL
Jedburgh Dagger: Good afternoon. Today I will be talking about the history of policing, and about how the innovations of the Victorian era led to the professional Police agencies your typists hopefully see on occassion and are contacted by infrequently.
Wildstar B.: bows
Gabrielle Anatra grins
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Mr Baroque
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach chuckles
Darlingmonster Ember smiles
Jedburgh Dagger: I will say this on the outset, to be considerate of your neighbors, and for those of you not in an Anglo-American-centric country to forgive the degree of bias given the subject matter. My intent was to make this as ‘salon-sized’ a package as possible, so given the scope of material…I made some choices.
Jedburgh Dagger: In the beginning…our first watershed date is 1285. Prior to this time in England, justice was primarily a private matter. Victims of a crime typically handled crimes with no assistance from the crown or their agents. So blood feuds between families was common, with revenge and retribution.
Jedburgh Dagger: (and if anyone really wondered…)
Jedburgh Dagger: As a side note, my typist’s ancestors were for a large part Border Rievers from the Scottish side. On the border they had the tradition of the “Hot Trod”, where if you were raided you could make a lawful counter-raid within 6 days, with “hound and horne, hew and cry”, carrying a bit of flaming turf on a lance to show that this was a lawful raid.
Garnet Psaltery smiles
Jedburgh Dagger: Without going too far afield on that subject, there was a good bit of that going on until someone from the government came to calm things down
Sera: interesting!
Jedburgh Dagger: In the 12th century you begin to see the rise of the tithing system. 10 families (the tithing)were grouped together, agreeing to follow the law, keep the peace, and bring in violators of the law. Ten tithings formed a hundred, and a set of hundreds formed a shire. The shire reeve was appointed by the king to maintain order in that area.
Jedburgh Dagger: Hopefully for some of us who grew up watching Errol Flynn and Basil Rathbone, this makes things make more sense
Garnet Psaltery: :o)
Selena nods and smiles
Jedburgh Dagger: This is where the notion came from of the American county Sheriff, with the refinement that the sheriff became an elected position. The shire reeve would have assistance from town and village constables, who would provide manpower from the citizenry to chase and catch lawbreakers. The ‘hue and cry’ meant that those able-bodied souls in town would need to turn out and be ready to lend aid. This was the posse, something that has survived to the modern day, albeit in limited circumstances.
Jedburgh Dagger: So I mentioned 1285. This was the year that the Statute of Winchester was passed. This law began the Constable/Watch system of policing. A constable was selected from each parish, and he would appoint men to be members of the town watch. These appointed unpaid watchmen would patrol the city at night supposedly to deter crime. The law also said that all men between the age of 16 and 60 would maintain arms and armor and respond when called to service. There were also criminal penalties for any man who did not respond to the call.
Jedburgh Dagger: One of the problems with this system is that you have a lot of menfolk who are made to stay up all night who may otherwise be of another inclination.
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Heh.
Tepic Harlequin: an unpaid cept by them as didn’t want to be seen…..
Jedburgh Dagger: The story goes that most of the nightwatchmen would hunker down in a warm spot that tended to serve beer, rather than be out walking around town
Darlingmonster Ember: 😀
Jedburgh Dagger: This system laid the foundations for many of the things that became part of the modern system of policing. As a side note, this system also influenced the militia system in the colonies, with many of the same concepts of preparedness and response.
Jedburgh Dagger: The colonial militia laws have been a point of research of mine for many years, with my involvement in Georgian-era reenacting.
Jedburgh Dagger: (and yes, I am normally in a unit who wears red or green. If you don’t get it ask me later)
Jedburgh Dagger: This system ran on until the Victorian era reforms, with one notable exception.
Jedburgh Dagger: The next date on the list is 1748. Henry Fielding, a London magistrate (and a fine novelist, for what it is worth) founded the Bow Street Runners. This was a group of professional paid law enforcement agents who worked in the Bow Street Covent Garden area of London.
Jedburgh Dagger: (extra credit if you know what he wrote without googling)
Baron Klaus Wulfenbach chuckles
Tepic Harlequin: bother! should know!
Phineas Thrace: Tom Jones
Jedburgh Dagger: and not the singer 😛
Phineas Thrace: :0
Dee Wells: Hehe
Garnet Psaltery: 😀
Jedburgh Dagger: They were publicly funded, working as a detective force to catch criminals and recover stolen property. It was said that the Runners were the most effective law enforcement organization of its day. Others had little luck duplicating the success of the Runners in other parts of London, but Fielding had a great deal of influence of the future of policing by his writings on the subject and what he organized on Bow Street.
Jedburgh Dagger: Fielding set the stage for a professional, paid, and organized police force. A systematic approach to law enforcement would prove to be the wave of the future, but it would take the influence of the Industrial Revolution to set the wheels in motion for London.
Jedburgh Dagger: The Industrial Revolution caused a huge shift in population centers, so that urban centers like London experienced a huge amount of growth from people looking for work in the factories. This caused the numbers of people in poverty to swell, and created more public disorder and crime. While there had been a great deal of resistance to a full time police department in London, in 1829 Parliament passed the London Metropolitan Police Act, creating a 1000 man force to work within the city.
Jedburgh Dagger: Sir Robert Peel, the Home Secretary, had been a major advocate of the department’s foundation, so the new men were called ‘Peelers’ or ‘Bobbies’. His rules for officers follow, and are still as relevant today as they were then. While we did not learn them verbatim in the academy, I was taught as a young trainee the same priciples.
Dr. Harvey: Aha!
Jedburgh Dagger: 1. The police must be stable, efficient, and organized along military lines.

  1. The police must be under governmental control.
  2. The absence of crime will best prove the efficiency of police.
  3. The distribution of crime news is essential.
  4. The deployment of police strength both by time and area is essential.
  5. No quality is more indispensable to a policeman than a perfect command of temper; a quiet, determined manner has more effect than violent action.
  6. Good appearance commands respect.
  7. The securing and training of proper persons is at the root of efficiency.
  8. Public security demands that every police officer be given a number.
  9. Police headquarters should be centrally located and easily accessible to the people.
  10. Policemen should be hired on a probationary basis.
  11. Police records are necessary to the correct distribution of police strength.

    Jedburgh Dagger: The department was organzied under the command of two magistrates, who were later called Commissioners. Peel believed that crime control and prevention would be best accomplished by officers on patrol. While some felt that having a constant presence in their neighborhoods was an unwarranted intrusion on their privacy, the system proved to be the way of the future.
    Jedburgh Dagger: The London model also introduced the idea of a uniformed police force, so that they would be easily recognized
    Jedburgh Dagger: Meanwhile, in America…
    Jedburgh Dagger: The United States hung onto the old English system for quite a bit longer than the English did. The Constable/Watch system hung on in the urban areas, and the Sheriff in the unincorporated areas. In many ways, this model has continued in vestigial terms, because as it was said many times in the references I read, the tendancy is to gravitate to local control rather than to go to the next higher level of government.
    Bookworm Hienrichs nods.
    Gabrielle Anatra nods
    Jedburgh Dagger: One of them said that the US has more police departments as a whole than any other country, but arguably fewer officers
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Hm.
    Tepic Harlequin: heheheh
    Jedburgh Dagger: I do know of a few 4 or 5 man departments in Michigan.
    Gabrielle Anatra: There are some around.
    Gabrielle Anatra: No idea about numbers though.
    Glaubrius Valeska: West Texas…
    Jedburgh Dagger: I also want to interject the ‘your mileage may vary’ bit. I am familiar with the state laws in a few states, but not all, so y;know…
    Jedburgh Dagger: So, in 1844 New York City combined the Day and Night Watch into the first city police deaprtment in the US. It was not very successful at force because it was viewed as a bunch of political appointees who were out to further the intentions of City Hall. (the more things change in NYC, ….)
    Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
    Gabrielle Anatra nods
    Jedburgh Dagger: (but wait, it gets better)
    Jedburgh Dagger: In 1853, the New York state legislature formed the Municipal Police Department for the city. It was for the most part a failure, because it was slated to be disbanded by 1857 because of widespread corruption and bribery, and the fact they were not really reducing crime. The legislature then created the Metropolitan Police Department. This was to be headed by 5 commissioners that were appointed by the Governor, with one acting as Superintendant.
    Jedburgh Dagger: The idea was that the commissioners would be more accountable and reduce corruption.
    Garnet Psaltery: Hello, tiny Stereo
    Jedburgh Dagger: The mayor at the time, when called on to disband the Municipals, refused to do so. The two police departments were involved in several clashes, one of which came from the Metros trying to arrest the mayor. The govenor ended up sending in the National Guard to take charge, and finally the Municipal department was disbanded after the mayor was forced by a court injunction.
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Quite a fight.
    Jedburgh Dagger: If you ever want to read about politics, look up Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed.
    Gabrielle Anatra: Aye.
    Gabrielle Anatra: Interesting times.
    Jedburgh Dagger: New York City has always been corrupt.
    Glaubrius Valeska nods grimly
    Jedburgh Dagger: Tweed makes some of our modern politicos look like pikers
    Gabrielle Anatra nods
    Jedburgh Dagger: Boston followed suit in 1855, with much less chaos than the New Yorkers, and most large cities followed suite after this, so that by the beginning of the War of Northern Aggression, er the Civil War, most large cities in the US had a central police force. After the war, you began to see more uniforms and regimentation of police departments.
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Retired soldiers.
    Jedburgh Dagger: In some cases, yes.
    Jedburgh Dagger: It is why the myth of the band of cowboys riding up and down the street shooting is so very Hollywood.
    Jedburgh Dagger: Northfield Minnesota and the James Gang. Nuff said
    Bookworm Hienrichs grins.
    Jedburgh Dagger: Just a few dates in addition…
    Zantabraxus: Greetings, Voxel
    Jedburgh Dagger: The first agency to issue a multi-shot firearm as a standard happened to be the Texas Rangers, in the 1850s
    Glaubrius Valeska smiles
    Jedburgh Dagger: In the late 1850s San Francisco began the systematic use of photographs to identify criminals
    Jedburgh Dagger: in 1862 W.V. Adams patented the first modern style ratcheting handcuffs
    Tepic Harlequin: dang busybody…….
    Dee Wells: Hehe
    Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
    Darlingmonster Ember: snerks
    Jedburgh Dagger: in 1878 Albany New York installed telegraphs in all their police and fire houses
    Jedburgh Dagger: and a year later, Washington DC installed telephones.
    Jedburgh Dagger: In 1888, Chicago started using the Bertillion method of identifying people.
    Darlingmonster Ember: ?
    Glaubrius Valeska arches eyebrow
    Jedburgh Dagger: Mr B was a Frenchman who came up with a system of using anthopological data to identify people
    Jedburgh Dagger: hand size, head shape, things like that
    Darlingmonster Ember: aha
    ‘Cip’: Hm. Sounds like an offshoot of phrenology
    Gabrielle Anatra nods
    Jedburgh Dagger: this lasted until the onset of fingerprints
    Gabrielle Anatra: Though before fingerprints it seems fairly decent.
    Jedburgh Dagger: in 1901, Scotland yard began classifying and taking fingerprints based on the Henry system
    Jedburgh Dagger: Henry was the superintendant of the police in a city in India
    Jedburgh Dagger: The argument is he did it,a nd there was a guy in France working on the same thing whose name is on a sheet I left on my desk at work (sigh)
    Darlingmonster Ember smiles
    Bookworm Hienrichs shakes her fist at paper-eating desks.
    Nika Thought-werk looks around “We can eat her papers?”
    Jedburgh Dagger: This all started around 1878 or so, and it took all this time for it to get traction in the law enforcement community and for the science to get approved by the court
    Jedburgh Dagger: As always, things have to get well established before they are deemed reliable.
    Sera: interesting observation
    Jedburgh Dagger: So, While I still have a few points yet unmentioned, and while I could ramble on for a while…now is the time to ask questions
    Jedburgh Dagger: or for you fans of Car Talk, you want to play Stump the Chump…
    Voxel holds Nika’s feet on the grid, whispering a “Welcome back.”
    Dr. Harvey: clunk clunk aaahooooga
    Nika Thought-werk raises her hands.
    Jedburgh Dagger: Nika?
    Bookworm Hienrichs grins at the ‘Car Talk’ reference.
    Nika Thought-werk: I wonder … of all the pre-1900 police forces … which did you think was the best?
    Nika Thought-werk: Sorry if I missed this.
    Nika Thought-werk: I do not grasp big words, you know?
    Jon Chen: If I may ask….
    Jedburgh Dagger: Best is subjective, and you could argue one way or another. The London Metropolitans were some of the best organized, IMO, and I think that Doyle gave them a bad rap overall
    Tepic Harlequin: hehehehe
    Jedburgh Dagger: Jon?
    Nika Thought-werk nods.
    Tepic Harlequin raises a hand
    Jon Chen: Why was it difficult to establish a police force in London, initially… What was the thinking?
    Jedburgh Dagger: and we could argue US ones all day
    Darlingmonster Ember: yes that interests me… was it a class decision or political?
    Jon Chen: And as Rl calls, i shall look to the trnascript — thanks for an excellent talk 🙂
    Jedburgh Dagger: Because the people were worried that this was going to be another hard handed instrument of the King
    Darlingmonster Ember: ah
    Darlingmonster Ember: nod
    Jon Chen: Short and sharp!
    Roy Smashcan: It does sound quite like another army…
    Jon Chen: We’ve come a ways since then, perhaps….
    Jon Chen: it des….
    Jon Chen: Does, even
    Jedburgh Dagger: During the Gordon Riots in London they did deploy the Army
    Jedburgh Dagger: Quick sidebar
    Tepic Harlequin: In the UK, the police had to have a hand on you to arrest you, was this comon in other forces?
    Jedburgh Dagger: We grew up with the phrase ‘read the Riot act’
    Gabrielle Anatra: We’re seeing a lot of similar argumants with resect tp dna evidence and ‘net tracking today.
    Gabrielle Anatra: Ugh, typonese.
    Jedburgh Dagger: Which was basically the magistrate read the Riot Act, and once it was read, you were breaking the law if you didn;t scatter
    Jedburgh Dagger: and not so much Tepic. Normally it was you had to bring the whole person.
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: You’ve had your warning, so to speak.
    Darlingmonster Ember: nod
    Jedburgh Dagger: Another homework assignment. Gordon Riots.
    Tepic Harlequin: 1714 Riot Act, you could do ANYTHNG one that had been read……
    Nika Thought-werk reaches over and hugs the cute Captain Pengu-chan.
    Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
    Jedburgh Dagger: The Guards did a bayonet charge in Hyde Park.
    Darlingmonster Ember: ick
    Jedburgh Dagger: Like Tepic said, once they said the words, you were bought and paid for.
    Darlingmonster Ember shudders…. having been tear gassed…and never wanting to be near a bayonet charge
    Jedburgh Dagger: Which is also why US law has all the things in it it does
    Glaubrius Valeska wonders how Ember went about being tear gassed
    Tepic Harlequin: time i was asleep, thanks fer the talk!
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: As we wind this down, may I remind you all to show your appreciation for our wonderful speaker.
    Darlingmonster Ember smiles
    Glaubrius Valeska: Nice job Commodore!
    Jedburgh Dagger: Ok kids, if you want to ask, you can hit me up later if it wasn’t covered
    Beryl Strifeclaw: Bye Tepic
    Dr. Harvey applauds!
    Sera: applauds
    Darlingmonster Ember applauds
    Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
    Galactic Baroque applauds
    Selena: Bravo, Commodore!!
    Phineas Thrace: applauds
    Nika Thought-werk: Herr Baron, we are winding down?
    Glaubrius Valeska applauds
    Sera: This was brilliant!
    Gabrielle Anatra smiles
    Beryl Strifeclaw: Thank you, Jed
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Perhaps another session next season, Frau Commodore?
    Stereo Nacht: APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
    Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
    Darlingmonster Ember: that was pretty darn interesting
    Darlingmonster Ember: thank you Jed
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: You’d best not wind down, Nika.
    Beryl Strifeclaw: Informative
    Jedburgh Dagger: Sure
    Dr. Harvey: Very educational!
    Beryl Strifeclaw: =^_^=
    Stereo Nacht: Sorry I missed almost everything, but I did appreciate what I caught!
    Nika Thought-werk follows others’ leads and claps.
    Baron Klaus Wulfenbach applauds
    Darlingmonster Ember applauds
    Wildstar B.: thank you Miss Jed !
    Jedburgh Dagger: Thank you for coming
    Wildstar B.: good night all !
    ‘Cip’: Most interesting Baron Klaus Wulfenbach: Gute Nacht, those leaving.
    Sera: Good eve, everyone!
    Darlingmonster Ember: waves to those leaving

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