Heraldry! with Edward Pearse (Unedited)


((Technical difficulties made for a late start.))

Edward Pearse: Heraldry is the profession, study, or art of creating, granting, and blazoning arms and ruling on questions of rank or protocol, as exercised by an officer of arms.
Edward Pearse: I am neither a professional Herald nor an expert
Edward Pearse: Just a very enthusiastic amateur πŸ™‚
Darlingmonster Ember smiles
Darlingmonster Ember: we like those
Solace Fairlady: they come cheaper than the other two as well
Darlingmonster Ember smiles
Darlingmonster Ember: grins
Edward Pearse: There are a variety of differences between heraldry in different countryies
Edward Pearse: Most of what I will be discussing here concerns English heraldry as that is what I’m most familiar with
Edward Pearse: The use of symbols to identify kings goes back as far as ancient Egypt.
Edward Pearse: The tribes of Isreal are each supposed to have a standard and the Legions of the Roman Army were identifyable by the symbols on their shields.
Edward Pearse: Origins as identification for individuals came to the fore in the 12th century.
Edward Pearse pauses as he waits for the texture upload to get to the right texture
Ethan Paul III: (I still see grey)
Edward Pearse: OK, should load now
Darlingmonster Ember: ((is sstarting… got one texture on grid))
Ethan Paul III: (mana from the Heavens!)
Edward Pearse: Geoffrey V (1113 – 1151), Count of Anjou has the first recorded use of a coat of arms.
Solace Fairlady: i see the current royal coat of arms?
Tepic Harlequin: oh! a picture of a bloke with a sword!
Jimmy Branagh: ((One on grid, one near Edward))
Edward Pearse: His shield of blue with gold lions was part of his memorial enamel.
Osric Worbridge: ((Giants vs. Packers 10 to 10))
Bookworm Hienrichs: ((Yes, look up front, not on the big thing ont he side.))
Solace Fairlady: seeing both
Cullan: i seee…what is that, willaims?
Edward Pearse: England’s Henry II is believed to have used a pair of gold lions as his personal arms, although the colours are unknown.
Edward Pearse: His fHis son Richard, added a third lion and this symbol of three lions has continued to be the Royal Arms of England to this day.
Sera: interesting!
Tepic Harlequin imagines King Henry with lions as arms….
Osric Worbridge: Tinctures, and metals, and furs! Oh My!
Solace Fairlady: sounds like a usual night out
Osric Worbridge: ((The text is lost in the back ground. Perhaps a prim places behind it for contrast, your Grace?))
Edward Pearse: Bah and that’s loaded transparent
Edward Pearse: OK
Edward Pearse: The Language of heraldry is Norman French
Edward Pearse: Just as English has words in it derived from Latin, so too does French
Edward Pearse: (and German and most European languages for that matter)
Cullan: German isnt a romantic language….
Cullan: Neither is English.
Edward Pearse: A Blazon, is a word “map” to describe a coat of arms
Tepic Harlequin: no, but English has German roots as well as roots from the others,…
Darlingmonster Ember: listens
Edward Pearse: The colours are called “Tinctures”
Edward Pearse: And are made up of two metals
Edward Pearse: Five colurs
Edward Pearse: and two furs
Edward Pearse: Tinctures: Metals of Or (gold) and Argent (silver/white). Colours Azure (blue), Gules (red), Purpure (purple), Sable (black), Vert (green).
Edward Pearse: Later heraldry incorporates three additional colours
Edward Pearse: Additionally later colours include TennΓ© (brown), Murrey (wine), Sanguine (blood red)
Edward Pearse: The cross hatching on the right side is how the colours are depicted when you only have the option of black & white drawings to display
Darlingmonster Ember: nods, pen and ink
Darlingmonster Ember: nice
Cullan: Petra Sancta method.
Edward Pearse: The shield can be divided into several sections
Edward Pearse: Over these can be laid various lines, called “ordinaries”
Bookworm Hienrichs feels her eyes glaze over at the complexity.
Edward Pearse: Some of you may have heard the rumour that a “bar sinister” denotes royal illigitinacy
Linus Lacombe: Simon Bar Sinister?
Cullan: >.> This is nothin’ babes…
Edward Pearse: This means you have been reading too many romance novels
Osric Worbridge: lol
Darlingmonster Ember: laughs
Darlingmonster Ember: guilty
Edward Pearse: A “fess” is a french word for Bar (or barre)
Edward Pearse: As you can see on the chart it’s horizontal
Edward Pearse: It’s possible to have a “bend sinister” but a bar sinister doesn’t even exist
Edward Pearse: Rather than just a straight line, the divisions can also be separated by patterns
Edward Pearse: But there’s only so many ways that you can use a line to help break up the shield image
Edward Pearse: So people also used “Charges”
Edward Pearse: Charges are animals, objects and people on the shield
Wildstar: this is terrific but my time’s up and regretfully I must go …. good night all
Edward Pearse: Lions are pretty popular in Scottish and English heraldry
Linus Lacombe: Good night
Darlingmonster Ember: waves, safe travels
Solace Fairlady: god night dmiral!
Cullan: All them royal folks runnin around, and all…
Cullan: Not the mention the Royal Tressure…
Darlingmonster Ember: mmm quite a pride
Osric Worbridge: ouch .. pun
Edward Pearse: OK, any of these still grey over here?
Linus Lacombe: nope, I can see them all
Tepic Harlequin: darn….. i have ter go, an it’s very interesting too!
Sera: I can see them
Osric Worbridge: 2 on top
Ethan Paul III: Theres one or two near the top
Darlingmonster Ember: top right, top left
Solace Fairlady: 2 on top
Darlingmonster Ember: coming in on right
Linus Lacombe: oh yes, two on top not rezzin
Rain: Nini, Tepic πŸ™‚
Arnold: Night.
Tepic Harlequin: night all!
Solace Fairlady: top right trying to rez in
Darlingmonster Ember: coming in on left
Linus Lacombe: here they come in
Darlingmonster Ember: grand
Solace Fairlady: there they are
Osric Worbridge: 3 lions rampant, can see them
Edward Pearse: Now, the top three are all “Lion Rampant”
Edward Pearse: Just to give you an idea of the artistic differences that still happen with an identical charge
Edward Pearse: “Rampant” is three legs raised in the air
Sera: I didn’t know that
Edward Pearse: Each of the positions of the lions has a different word to describe it
Edward Pearse: Sejent, passant, Statant
Linus Lacombe: What’s the one saucily stick out his tongue called?
Edward Pearse: Facing the front?
Linus Lacombe: Yes, second from right, bottom row
Edward Pearse: Lion Rampant Guardant
Darlingmonster Ember: ooo
Edward Pearse: The Guardant means the face of the beast it towards the viewer
Darlingmonster Ember: nods
Edward Pearse: Ah
Edward Pearse: Now
Ethan Paul III: ( thought he was just looking for a date)
Edward Pearse: One of the biggest myths about heraldry is the existence of a “family” coat of arms
Osric Worbridge: indeed
Edward Pearse: No. Such. Thing.
Linus Lacombe: Though certain genealogical concerns are quite apt to try to sell you one.
Edward Pearse: A coat of arms is like a title, you have to wait for the previous owner to die before you can lay claim to it
Osric Worbridge: ((Scam))
Cullan: Although when one is a member of a clan, he is allowed to display his Chief’s arms. Just like any retainer to a Lord.
Ethan Paul III: Wait but are there not certain combinations that are linked to lands?
Edward Pearse: Yes, there are businesses referred to as “bucket shops” who will sell you anything based on your surname
Cullan: Land and names
Ethan Paul III: Isnt that where the myth than comes from
Cullan: the Kent area has the infamouse Cinque Port arms. Look at Hastings and Dover.
Cullan: Many families also re-use certain displays from father to son.
Edward Pearse: IF, and it’s a big if, the titles is entailed to the property, then yes arms goes with the land, but they’re rather rare now days
Cullan: arms of English Kings, for existence. You should see the arms of William and Mary sometiem.
Cullan: sometime*
Edward Pearse: And if we can keep the questions for the end, for now πŸ™‚
Edward Pearse: No, since only one person at a time may hold an achievement of arms
Edward Pearse: There comes into play a system called Cadency
Edward Pearse: This means you overlay the original arms with a mark to show you’re in line to inherit
Edward Pearse: If you look across to my right, the bottom row shows the arms of the various sons of Queen Elizabeth II
Edward Pearse: Charles on the far left, then Andrew, followed by William and Harry
Edward Pearse: The diamond above them is Beatrice
Edward Pearse: Since she’s a girl she doesn’t get a shield, she has a lozenge
Ceejay Writer coughs
Solace Fairlady: tastier
Jimmy Branagh: Reeeeecola …
Cullan: …she can use a shield if she wants….its not required.
Linus Lacombe: Cherry or menthol?
Edward Pearse: When Elizabeth dies, the marks will then change with the succession
Edward Pearse: Obviously, not everyone inherits the main arms
Edward Pearse: Second and third sons usually add a change to show they are related but still have their own personal arms
Cullan: Marks of Cadency arent marks of succession. THey’re marks to show which son you are. Until you’re granted your own arms…
Cullan: they dont change with death.
Edward Pearse: We’ll discuss that at the end if you like
Cullan: Just helping πŸ˜€
Edward Pearse: Here’s some examples of how arms may change with generations and marriages
Rain: Thats when ay use Voodoo Zombies.
Edward Pearse: Cadency is done a little differently in Scotland
Edward Pearse: Usually noted with a border around the arms, rather than a label over it
Addison Greymyst: Sorry to have to leave – thank you all – very informative – take care
Edward Pearse: As you can see here the original coat of arms stays the same on the left as it passes from generation to generation
Darlingmonster Ember: wow
Edward Pearse: Now I think just about everyone on the planet heard about a small royal wedding last year
Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
Darlingmonster Ember smiles
Solace Fairlady: so the Royal heralds scurried to invent her a coat of arms?
Edward Pearse: Test
Osric WorbridgeOsric Worbridge nods
Ceejay Writer: (quietly interjects that tips for our speaker and the venue can be paid to the Salon signs at the rear of the room, thank you!)
Edward Pearse kicks lag
Edward Pearse: And yes, the Middleton arms were done in a hurry
Edward Pearse: Hers are the top left.
Edward Pearse: The blue bow indicates an unmarried woman
Solace Fairlady: pretty ribbon!
Vic Mornington: the one with the naff bow?
Linus Lacombe: Well, isn’t that a jaunty little arms she has
Vic Mornington: yup, one with the bow rofl
Darlingmonster Ember: gorgeous
Edward Pearse: Once she was married and became Duchess of Cambridge her arms changed to those in the middle
Darlingmonster Ember: ah
Edward Pearse: Half middleton, half Prince William
Solace Fairlady: will her arms, with or without bow, be used again by anyone?
Ethan Paul III: England’s
Linus Lacombe: If families have no arms, why are those Middleton arms?
Edward Pearse: William’s, not Englands
Linus Lacombe: oops, not holding questions til the end…sorry
Solace Fairlady: sorry!
Darlingmonster Ember notes the demerits down
Darlingmonster Ember smiles
Solace Fairlady enjoys the detention afterwards far too much
Edward Pearse: Now, some families will keep the quartering to show they have a really good pedigree when it comes to important people
Stereo Nacht: o.O
Osric Worbridge: Those always make me laugh.
Edward Pearse: Some get a little carried away in my opinion
Solace Fairlady: omg
Darlingmonster Ember: ahem… this was before facebook icons, of course
Linus Lacombe: Pretty quilt!
Darlingmonster Ember: smirks
Solace Fairlady: compensating, perhaps?
Bookworm Hienrichs: Good gravy!
Edward Pearse: Possible one of those with an important title but flat broke
Ceejay Writer: I’m blind!
Mumsy Abigail: and three arms
Darlingmonster Ember: laughs, broke from all the paperwork of that crest
Solace Fairlady: 6 heralds ended up in an asylum compiling that
Darlingmonster Ember: heee
Solace Fairlady: they dropped that one
Edward Pearse: These were the arms for the Emperor of Austria Hungry as of 1915
Ceejay Writer SO wants to tidy up that crooked cross.
Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
Linus Lacombe: Crowns of Austria and Hungary I assume
Osric Worbridge: a semi of estoiles
Bookworm Hienrichs: D’oh!
Bookworm Hienrichs: I was wondering…
Solace Fairlady: heavy armour
Ceejay Writer: He had managed a good long stretch without crashes.
Solace Fairlady: yes indeed!
Solace Fairlady: topping the leaderboard
Darlingmonster Ember quickly puts back the widget in the sim chassis before anyone suspects
Solace Fairlady: welcome back your Grace!
Solace Fairlady: ah phoenix double
Bookworm Hienrichs: Spoke too soon.
Darlingmonster Ember: aha, I see I’m not the only one with teh double crash on new viewers
Osric Worbridge: perhaps a DoppelgΓ€nger
Satu Moreau: Sorry, but I have to go
Satu Moreau: Take care all! And thanks, Mr. Pearse!
Darlingmonster Ember: waves to M Moreau
Solace Fairlady: safe travels satu!
Satu Moreau: Hope to see it up on the notning
Jimmy Branagh: Byee Satu!
Ethan Paul III: Everyday at least once a day I crash
Edward Pearse holds his breath
Edward Pearse: OK, and these arms are for the university of Plymouth, granted as recently as 2008
Ceejay Writer holds the dukes breath in a sturdy test tube.
Solace Fairlady: for analysis later?
Edward Pearse: And I’m going to skip over the Battle of Barnet story since we started so late
Edward Pearse: Ceejay, would you like to issue numbers for the questioners? πŸ™‚
Ceejay Writer: Ummmmmmm okay!
Ceejay Writer: Those with questions, please state your name to me.
Edward Pearse: Since hand won’t work πŸ™‚
Ceejay Writer: I have one in the queue. Queue going once, going twice….
Linus Lacombe: I fear I must say good night…my supper is goig to be out of the oven in just acouple of minutes. Thank you for a fascinating talk, Mr Pearse
Edward Pearse: Ask away then
Darlingmonster Ember: travel safe M Lacombe
Ceejay Writer: Also, another reminder tht tips may be paid to the posters at the rear of the venue, t hank you!
Edward Pearse: Travel safe
Ceejay Writer: Right then – Ethan Paul, your question?
Linus Lacombe waves and vanishes
Jimmy Branagh: Noight Mr. Linus!
Solace Fairlady: be well Linus, enjoy your supper;0
Osric Worbridge: http://www.barnet.gov.uk/index/leisure-culture/libraries/archives/archives-histories/archives-barnethistories/archives-barnet-battleofbarnet.htm
Ethan Paul III: When two power countries lets say england and spain arange to have two equal rulers marry how is the coat of arms decided for the heir ?
Darlingmonster Ember: oooo great question
Solace Fairlady: round the back, last one standing wins?
Darlingmonster Ember: arms wrestling… best two outta three
Ethan Paul III: hehe
Edward Pearse: Usually, the arms would be divided on the shield like Kate Middleton’s
Ethan Paul III: Would that then blend into a new country
Edward Pearse: The male on the dexter (left as you face the shield) side
Cullan: Dimidated.
Edward Pearse: Well when Richard I was King of England, he didn’t really care about it much
Edward Pearse: He was more interested in his lands in Normandy and Aquitain
Edward Pearse: But “King” is a good title
Edward Pearse: And England gave him gold to bugger off on crusade
Cullan: When people marry, thier arms can be dimidated. They do not create a new country, because the right of Kingship falls to the male. Wimminz cant be king. Unless your name is Elizabeth.
Osric Worbridge: Queen Mary of England remained Sovereign while married to King Phillip of Spain.
Edward Pearse: When James the VI of Scotland inherited the throne of England his personal arms were revised to show the two Kingdoms
Edward Pearse: But the two remained separate countries
Edward Pearse: And did for another 200 years
Jimmy Branagh: Oy’ve got to run! Thenks Duke Edward faw a gryte Salon! Noight all!
Darlingmonster Ember applauds
Arnold: Night.
Stereo Nacht: Good night Mr. Branagh!
Darlingmonster Ember: splendid stuff
Solace Fairlady: Goodnight master Jimmy!
Solace Fairlady applauds
Jimmy Branagh applauds and waves
Ceejay Writer: goodnight Jimmy!
Ethan Paul III: fantastic!
Cullan: The marriage between Mary and Phillip was decided upon by rule of Parliament.
Edward Pearse: Night Jimmy
Cullan: they only agreed to it if England didn’t become Spain’s pet
Solace Fairlady: Thank you Sir Edward for a fascinating talk, very inmspiring to furter personal research!
Darlingmonster Ember: keen
Ethan Paul III: lol
Edward Pearse: Couple of linkies for people
Darlingmonster Ember: gets out pen
Edward Pearse: So, yes the current arms for Elizabeth show the Royal Arms of England in the two corners and the arms of Scotland and Ireland in the other two
Edward Pearse: Wales doesn’t get a look in πŸ™‚
Cullan: Unless shes in Scotland, and then they are switched
Solace Fairlady: bot of course:)
Edward Pearse: Yep
Edward Pearse: The Use and Abuse of the Coat of Arms and Crest
By William Armstrong Crozier (published 1905)
http://www.genealogymagazine.com/heuseandabof.html
Darlingmonster Ember: oh?
Edward Pearse: http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Faq.htm
Edward Pearse: Pssst! Want to Buy Your Family’s Coat of Arms?
http://learn.ancestry.com/LearnMore/Article.aspx?id=4133
Ceejay Writer looks at her watch and meeps, and must be elsewhere in one minute precisely. “Edward, this was fascinating, I honestly had no clue of the intriciaties!”
Stereo Nacht: Good night Miss Writer!
Edward Pearse grins, “and this is the basics”
Ceejay Writer: Adn again, everyone, please support Salon! The posters at the rear of the venue await your generous assistance.
Cullan: We could go beyond, into the simple rules of tincture…
Mumsy Abigail applauds
Ceejay Writer: Good evening, one and all!
Edward Pearse: Take care
Darlingmonster Ember applauds
Darlingmonster Ember applauds
Solace Fairlady: Thank you so much your Grace, and done with sio many trials to get through as well!
Bookworm Hienrichs: Any other questions for Edward?
Edward Pearse: Speak now or forever hold your peace
Osric Worbridge: Which of the 2 signs is for his Grace?
Bookworm Hienrichs: Either.
Darlingmonster Ember: waves to all
Darlingmonster Ember: flits
Bookworm Hienrichs: Well, thank you, those who are left, for coming.
Stereo Nacht: Good night Miss Ember!
Bookworm Hienrichs: /me chuckles.
Bookworm Hienrichs: We shall do our best to iron out the rough spots for next month’s Salon!
Solace Fairlady: Goodnight all, and thank you again for the salon, Miss Book and Miss Sera!
Stereo Nacht: Good night Miss Solace!
Stereo Nacht: And good night everyone!
Edward Pearse: Thanks for coming everyone and thanks for your patience πŸ™‚
Stereo Nacht: Thank you Sir Edward, it was quite instructive!
Vic Mornington: g’night folks!
Arnold: And nw that eveyon’esleft I have thecrash threats.
Edward Pearse: Must have been your turn
Bookworm Hienrichs sighs. “That could have gone better.”
Edward Pearse: Ah well
Osric Worbridge: Glad to see you were able to make it to the event Miss Book.
Edward Pearse: At least my music didn’t crash πŸ™‚
Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
Bookworm Hienrichs: And glad to see you, Mr. Worbridge.
Edward Pearse: Well, I’ll leave you to it. Travel safe everyone
Bookworm Hienrichs: Good day, sir.
Osric Worbridge: Good day
Bookworm Hienrichs flits away herself.
Osric Worbridge: Time to go build

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